Q: Dillo Dirt

[JKC]

I have Bermuda grass.
I want to "top dress" our yard this year.
I got some quotes from few landscapers.
Most use dillo dirt while one uses "organic compost."
Here are my questions.

1. What is dillo dirt?

2. Which is better for my yard - dillo dirt or organic compost?

3. How much (thickness) is enough for each material? Is 1/2" of dillo dirt
sufficient, or do I need full 1"?

4. Any good/honest INEXPENSIVE dillo dirt or organic compost business you
can recommend in NW Austin (183 & Anderson Mill)?

5. Are they worth the money? Do they really help?

[escape]

Post by JKC
I have Bermuda grass.
I want to "top dress" our yard this year.
I got some quotes from few landscapers.
Most use dillo dirt while one uses "organic compost."
Here are my questions.
1. What is dillo dirt?

Processed sewer sludge, I do not recommend using it.

Post by JKC
2. Which is better for my yard - dillo dirt or organic compost?

Organic compost may cost more, but it is superior. To be more specific, compost
which has fungal properties (decaying plant matter) is excellent for trees and
shrubs. Bacterial (decaying finished animal waste) compost is good for turf.
In my gardens, I bought 12 yards of Revitilizer Mix from The Natural Gardener
and had them deliver it. Then, the landscapers spread it around with the Bobcat.
I only had to do that one time and now as each year goes by I top dress
everything with that same Revitilizer Compost. I like it because it has both
fungal and bacterial properties, as well as decomposed granite sand. My soil is
like butta!

Post by JKC
3. How much (thickness) is enough for each material? Is 1/2" of dillo dirt
sufficient, or do I need full 1"?

For turf, I would recommend you have someone come in and do what is called, core
aeration. If you want, you can rent the machine yourself, be careful around
where wires are. Have the utility companies come out and mark where wires are.
This sounds like a lot of work, and it sort of is, but you only need do this
once. After the core aeration, top dress with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of compost.
Dillo Dirt is no longer on the list of acceptable materials by the Certified
Organic Materials. You do not need a full inch, that is overkill for turf. It
shouldn't hurt, but you don't need that much.

Post by JKC
4. Any good/honest INEXPENSIVE dillo dirt or organic compost business you
can recommend in NW Austin (183 & Anderson Mill)?

Contact The Natural Gardener www.naturalgardeneraustin.com

Five years ago I had that 12 cubic yards delivered to far northeast Round Rock
and the entire thing was about 450 dollars. That included the added shipping
charges for being out of range. You are not out of range. They have other less
expensive composts there, but they make all their compost according to the state
of the art science. It is better to use less of their compost than more of a
cheaper alternative.

Post by JKC
5. Are they worth the money? Do they really help?

Positively. You will not be sorry.

Victoria-not affiliated in any way with The Natural Gardener, but a customer for
sure.





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

[Harold Robbins]

Post by JKC
I have Bermuda grass.
I want to "top dress" our yard this year.
I got some quotes from few landscapers.
Most use dillo dirt while one uses "organic compost."
Here are my questions.
1. What is dillo dirt?
2. Which is better for my yard - dillo dirt or organic compost?
3. How much (thickness) is enough for each material? Is 1/2" of dillo dirt
sufficient, or do I need full 1"?
4. Any good/honest INEXPENSIVE dillo dirt or organic compost business you
can recommend in NW Austin (183 & Anderson Mill)?
5. Are they worth the money? Do they really help?

...

Dillo dirt is processed biological sewage that has been sterilized.
Organic compost is a mixture of soil and organic materials that have
been nurtured to present a biological nutrient.

Both are essentially the same thing. If I were choosing, I would chose
based on the cheapest price. Expecially for lawns. I would consider
organic compost if I were using it in a victory garden where I wanted to
eat the produce.

I have no answers for your other questions. But if I were interested in
Dillo Dirt, I would look on the Web Site for the City of Austin as it is
the producer of Dillo Dirt. You might get some answers there.


Harold

[Celeste Evans]

One caveat that I have personally with dillo dirt. My neighbor had
gotten some dillo dirt to fill in some low spots in his yard and had
some left over that he used to fill in a low spot in my yard. I suspect
that I will never get rid of the nut grass that appeared that summer. I
had never had nut grass in the yard before. I would not use it for that
reason alone. I surmise that sometimes the mixture does not get that
hot and when you consider that it contains sewer sludge well....you
decide.

Cea

Post by Harold Robbins

Post by JKC
I have Bermuda grass.
I want to "top dress" our yard this year.
I got some quotes from few landscapers.
Most use dillo dirt while one uses "organic compost."
Here are my questions.
1. What is dillo dirt?
2. Which is better for my yard - dillo dirt or organic compost?
3. How much (thickness) is enough for each material? Is 1/2" of dillo dirt
sufficient, or do I need full 1"?
4. Any good/honest INEXPENSIVE dillo dirt or organic compost business you
can recommend in NW Austin (183 & Anderson Mill)?
5. Are they worth the money? Do they really help?

Dillo dirt is processed biological sewage that has been sterilized.
Organic compost is a mixture of soil and organic materials that have
been nurtured to present a biological nutrient.
Both are essentially the same thing. If I were choosing, I would chose
based on the cheapest price. Expecially for lawns. I would consider
organic compost if I were using it in a victory garden where I wanted to
eat the produce.
I have no answers for your other questions. But if I were interested in
Dillo Dirt, I would look on the Web Site for the City of Austin as it is
the producer of Dillo Dirt. You might get some answers there.
Harold

...

[dt]

Post by Celeste Evans
One caveat that I have personally with dillo dirt. My neighbor had
gotten some dillo dirt to fill in some low spots in his yard and had
some left over that he used to fill in a low spot in my yard. I suspect
that I will never get rid of the nut grass that appeared that summer. I
had never had nut grass in the yard before. I would not use it for that
reason alone. I surmise that sometimes the mixture does not get that
hot and when you consider that it contains sewer sludge well....you
decide.

...

The human waste involved doesn't concern me nearly so much as the fact that you don't know *what* some people pour down their drains. If it was nothing but composted human waste and lawn trimmings, I'd use it in a heartbeat. As it is, I wouldn't touch the stuff.

BTW, did anybody catch Cameron Diaz talking about "poop" and its role in the ecosystem on the Tonight Show last night? She can come dig in my garden any time. ;-)

DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

[escape]

Post by dt
The human waste involved doesn't concern me nearly so much as the fact that you don't know *what* some people pour down their drains. If it was nothing but composted human waste and lawn trimmings, I'd use it in a heartbeat. As it is, I wouldn't touch the stuff.
BTW, did anybody catch Cameron Diaz talking about "poop" and its role in the ecosystem on the Tonight Show last night? She can come dig in my garden any time. ;-)
DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

Yes, I saw Cameron. She is so tall! No organic farmers or certified organic
growers use dillo dirt. I don't use it and wont, and it is free around these
parts.





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

[dt]

Post by escape

Post by dt
The human waste involved doesn't concern me nearly so much as the fact that you don't know *what* some people pour down their drains. If it was nothing but composted human waste and lawn trimmings, I'd use it in a heartbeat. As it is, I wouldn't touch the stuff.
BTW, did anybody catch Cameron Diaz talking about "poop" and its role in the ecosystem on the Tonight Show last night? She can come dig in my garden any time. ;-)
DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

Yes, I saw Cameron. She is so tall! No organic farmers or certified organic
growers use dillo dirt. I don't use it and wont, and it is free around these
parts.

...

I used to think it was free, too, until I tried to get some to topdress a friend's lawn a few years ago (she doesn't do veggies, so it seemed fairly safe). They only sell "wholesale to registered vendors", who then sell it retail.
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/dillovendors.htm

But, the good news (?) is that the regs have changed, and it can now be used on vegetable gardens! http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/dillofaq.htm

I still wouldn't use on my garden, even if it was free.

DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

[Joe Doe]

Post by dt
I used to think it was free, too, until I tried to get some to topdress a
friend's lawn a few years ago (she doesn't do veggies, so it seemed fairly
safe). They only sell "wholesale to registered vendors", who then sell it
retail.
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/dillovendors.htm
But, the good news (?) is that the regs have changed, and it can now be used
on vegetable gardens! http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/dillofaq.htm
I still wouldn't use on my garden, even if it was free.
DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/

...

What organics are completely free of questionable stuff?

I do not see much difference between say composted cow manure and
composted human manure.

Secondly even stuff that is theoretically pristine may not be kosher.
For example in a profile of mushroom farmers I read that the workers are
worked so hard that they relieve themselves on the mushroom media to
save time.

That said I like "Black Kow" brand compsoted cow manure - it really
seems composted but it is relatively pricey $3-4 a bag.


Roland

[J Rob]

Post by Joe Doe

Post by dt
But, the good news (?) is that the regs have changed, and it can now be used
on vegetable gardens! http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/water/dillofaq.htm

What organics are completely free of questionable stuff?
I do not see much difference between say composted cow manure and
composted human manure.

As DT was saying, you don't know what people will flush down
the sewer. It would probably be more precise to say we _do_
know what people will flush: anything they can get their
hands on, that will fit in the pipe. Things like antifreeze,
paint, or old pesticide concoctions. It doesn't take much
antifreeze or paint to pollute a million gallons of sewage,
especially if it's an old heavy-metal containing formulation.

The good news is, they don't let ordinary people buy consumer
products containing mercury or lead or ddt any more, so for
the most part, they won't have them. The bad news is, there's
still some of that stuff around in people's garages, though
it's hard to say how much. Such places as semiconductor fabs
used to dump weird stuff like fluorosilicates and arsenic
salts, but are much more tightly regulated than they were 20
years ago.

Hopefully the regs have changed based on sound science and
analysis of the Dillo Dirt. And not just arbitrary relaxation
of the standards.

Hopefully.

[Victor Martinez]

Post by Joe Doe
I do not see much difference between say composted cow manure and
composted human manure.

Cow manure is usually devoid of things like drano, toilet bowl cleaner,
comet bleach, tide with bleach, etc. etc. etc. that human sewage is
accented with. :)

[Joe Doe]

Post by Victor Martinez

Post by Joe Doe
I do not see much difference between say composted cow manure and
composted human manure.

Cow manure is usually devoid of things like drano, toilet bowl cleaner,
comet bleach, tide with bleach, etc. etc. etc. that human sewage is
accented with. :)

I know all those things go down but they are fantastically diluted by
normal water usage. All sewage treatment plants use microbes at some
stage and if the pollutants were so noxious they would definitely be
killed.

While there is no doubt that several organic fertilizers increase heavy
metal and other pollutants (coliform organism, phosphorous etc.) it is
also true that even after fairly heavy usage soil levels are not much
different from the levels of heavy metal levels naturally present in
soil. See for example:

http://www.ncagr.com/agronomi/hflyer.htm

Many other organic products have heavy metal contamination - they are
simply not that widely advertised. The same is also true of inorganic
fertilizers. Further, in an urban environment pollutants are regularly
coating are trees, falling on our lawns etc. etc.

I am neutral on sewage sludge - I would neither seek nor shun it. It is
slightly stinky though so it would not be my first choice. If the
original poster had Dillo dirt applied to his lawn it would certainly
not pose any significant risk. If applied in rotation with other
products any risk would be further minimized.

Roland

[Joe Doe]

In the spirit of interjecting facts into the debate:

Rutgers has some good solid data on sewage sludge and bio-solids. There
are eight fact sheets filled with generally good information in PDF
format. For heavy metals See:

http://www.rce.rutgers.edu/pubs/pdfs/fs956.pdf

This has a nice table showing heavy metal levels in various soil
amendments (rock phosphate, muncipal leaves, various manures etc.).
Rock phosphate is worse than sewage sludge in several categories. Of
course you do not use it in the same amounts but this is just to show
that things people consider innocuous are not so. This fact sheet also
has a table showing predicted soil levels after 100 years of application
of the various ammendments. Again, levels are not alarming for sewage
sludge and not really all that different from several other manures etc.

Another good summary from the scientific perspective in PDF format is:

http://www.eawag.ch/publications/eawagnews/www_en53/en53e_printer/en53e_s
tadelm_p.pdf

or

http://tinyurl.com/42953

They are generally balanced and put facts into perspective. For example
they state:

³In Switzerland only 12 % of the heavy metal input into the soil is
contributed by sewage sludge; 38 % originate from manures, 25 % from
atmospheric deposition, 14 % from mineral fertilizers, 6 % from
fungicides, 4 % from compost and 1 % from wood ash
[1]. Many kinds of organic pollutants, e.g. PAK (Fig. 3), get into the
soil to a larger extent by deposition and manure than by sewage sludge
[1]. The annual pollution of the agricultural soil in Switzerland by PCB
is composed by 1000 kg from deposition, 70 kg from manure, 8 kg from
sewage sludge and 3 kg from compost²


Roland

[escape]

Post by Harold Robbins
Dillo dirt is processed biological sewage that has been sterilized.

It has not been sterilized.

Post by Harold Robbins
Organic compost is a mixture of soil and organic materials that have
been nurtured to present a biological nutrient.
Both are essentially the same thing. If I were choosing, I would chose
based on the cheapest price. Expecially for lawns. I would consider
organic compost if I were using it in a victory garden where I wanted to
eat the produce.
I have no answers for your other questions. But if I were interested in
Dillo Dirt, I would look on the Web Site for the City of Austin as it is
the producer of Dillo Dirt. You might get some answers there.
Harold

...

Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

[Harold Robbins]

Post by escape

Post by Harold Robbins
Dillo dirt is processed biological sewage that has been sterilized.

It has not been sterilized.

Check with the City of Austin. Maybe they are lying.


Harold